june something day 16

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Day 16: Do you have a fandom that you follow - either regularly or casually - with little to no knowledge of canon?

People I follow on Tumblr are into many fandoms that I don't know, so I do sometimes see what is going on out of curiosity. For a while, it was The Flash, because I wanted to see how they were going to treat Iris/Westallen (I thought they looked cute in the trailer but didn't trust the CW after Arrow and Supergirl). Last year, after that whole love confession went around, I have to admit I was halfheartedly curious about where Supernatural was going to go in their final episodes, but I hadn't paid attention to it before that and only knew the bare details.

Sometimes, I check in on Riverdale. I don't have any interest in watching the show but as someone who used to read the Archie comics growing up and have a couple people I know online that do watch, I am interested in what direction they're going to finally go in.

Yes, I am the type of person who is always tempted to skip to the end to see what happens in everything. :D

Comments

[brokenhighways]

The Supernatural love confession was the single most glorious/worst thing that could have happened to the fandom. The meltdowns and outrage were great. I think some actors ended up quitting Twitter over it. Still, some of the Destiel fans are a little out there so I don't think anyone sympathised with them...

I don't really like Jensen Ackles anymore, but his face was EVERYTHING in the scene. I think they did some damage control after, but there's no way he was happy about it. I watched the last two episodes after skipping seasons 10-15, and they weren't really anything to write home about. Very brief mentions of Castiel (lol). I think Jensen was unhappy with the ending, but after ten seasons of nonsense, idk why he even exhausted energy being upset over it. It was always going to be bad because the show *is* bad.

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Between that and election night, Tumblr was definitely in the midst of it. As an outsider who follows like one Destiel shipper, maybe two (but mostly for their Clois shipping), I was just there for the memes. :D

Still, some of the Destiel fans are a little out there so I don't think anyone sympathised with them...
My sister only knew of SPN through the gifs and legit thought they were together years ago. It was pretty funny. Big fandoms are kind of chaotic and there are crazy fans everywhere, from what I've learned.

I don't know much about the cast, and while I find Jensen attractive, I obviously know nothing about his personality. Jared seems like kind of an ass, from his twitter account alone, and a Tumblr friend told me a not so great story about Misha Collins hitting on her friend despite the fact he was married at the time so IDEK.

I think Jensen was unhappy with the ending, but after ten seasons of nonsense, idk why he even exhausted energy being upset over it.
Oh yeah, I heard pieces of info about that, how the showrunners were like "oh, you're too close". Kind of seems like an ass move on their part though. If you play a character for 15 (?) years, I would probably want a fair ending too. Sounds like what the GoT cast had to deal with too. Another show I never watched, but I read a lot about how the actors concerns were dismissed (the guy who plays Jamie talked openly about that) and their faces during the table read of the scripts says it all. They actors of course shouldn't run the show, but I do think the longer they play a character, the more they might know something and their opinion can be taken seriously.

[brokenhighways]

All of the Supernatural cast are dicks. Especially the main three. Misha has done all sorts of creepy things, but they brush it off. It's not even a secret, it's just the fans will defend them over anything (while simultaneously invading their privacy). Misha and his wife are into threesomes and whatnot, so...I don't think his wife minds. At one point they had a girlfriend... whatever floats their boat!

Eh, I don't know about GoT, but Jensen deserved the ending the show got. They've (the cast) been picking money over making a decent show for years. I thought it was hilarious he suddenly cared about the ending... like, where was that energy over the last ten seasons? I think it was the original showrunner who told him he was too close to it (and probably that he also should have jumped ship after five years), lol. Jensen is known for whining whenever things don't go his way, though, so... eh, I'm of the mind that the writers have the final say. Like it or not, the actors are there to bring someone else's story to life. They can have suggestions and notes, but ultimately, the buck stops with the creative team.

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That's a shame, but not all that surprising. And it is weird about the lack of boundaries fans have. Social media breaking some of the fourth wall created even more unhealthy dynamics between fans and creators/actors/etc. Hey, as long as it is consensual on all parts, I don't really care.

The actor I mentioned referenced how other writing teams have been more collaborative and GoT just wasn't. It's very telling with how that show was everywhere and all of a sudden, people were so disgusted with the final season and ending that they stopped talking about it completely. Kind of like How I Met Your Mother.

I thought it was hilarious he suddenly cared about the ending... like, where was that energy over the last ten seasons?
I guess no matter what you want an ending you can be satisfied with. And yeah, I heard about the original showrunner. It is interesting that he stayed this long. Loyalty? He is attractive and a decent actor from what little I've seen. I know CW actors don't really get a lot of other opportunities but I can't imagine he would have at least gotten more exposure elsewhere.

I'm of the mind that the writers have the final say. Like it or not, the actors are there to bring someone else's story to life.
Depends on the writers IMO. If they've been there from the start, it's one thing but if they're constantly rotating and the actors have been there longer, they should at least think about it. Actors definitely shouldn't be in the writers room, just like fans should not be catered to (ugh, CW shows definitely do that and it's annoying) but there can be a balance. Look at Smallville. If left to their own devices, they would've had Lois kiss Clark in "Infamous" before he reversed time so he could have something to remind him of her or whatever and to have that in the episode after all that Clana stuff ended would've been awful. And made her look desperate. Fortunately Erica Durance fought to remove it and they were smart enough to listen, because their first kiss being in Crossfire, with Clark initiating it was so much better.

[brokenhighways]

I blame the actors to an extent for not setting clear boundaries. They play both sides and ended up with an out of control fandom (that Jared uses to do his dirty work from time to time). Plus, they all lack boundaries as well. I'll never forget this disturbing story Jensen told about spotting Sofia Vergara in a store and getting permission from his wife to follow her around... ugh.

IMO, Jensen and Jared were lazy and stuck around for the paycheck. The longer they stayed, the more money they got. They were phoning it in for years. Jensen has never really been the big movie star type. He has a lot of fan hype, though. There is a lot of nonsense about how he turned down the role of Hawkeye to stay on Supernatural (please!), or how he was in the running for Captain America (he wasn't, he was fancast and the fans ran with it). The closest he's come to playing a hero before The Boys was him being the second choice as Clark Kent on Smallville. Neither he or Jared did any other projects beyond the fourth season of Supernatural. They were tested in horror movies in 09, but both of them bombed (kind of like The Fog did, lol) and that was the end of that. Jared was supposedly up for Conan The Barbarian, but he didn't get the part. He claims he was also in the running for Thor, but it's all bs. I don't think they had any serious opportunities while on the show.

My thing is if you want to have some creative input, get yourself in a creative position. Jensen was on the show for *15 years* without a single producing credit. He can't really complain about the ending, IMO. If his complaints weren't enough for them to change it, that's on him. I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for him.

Oh, I think an actor having an issue with their character is fine. What Erica did made sense, and reasonable writers should take things like that onboard. If they can convince the writers to change it - power to them, but wasn't GoT sort of restricted by GRRM and the book series? I wonder how much that had to do with it. It's all about status in the industry anyway. If Tom Welling hadn't snagged his producing credits, he would have been in the suit in the finale. Instead, he was able call up the head of Warner Bros. due to the influence he had, and they changed the script.

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True, that is kind of weird but I feel like fans at some point should know better. Then again, this stan culture is kind of toxic in general. Whether it's sports, tv shows/movies or musicians.

Makes sense. It did end up being the CW's longest running show. I did read about how Jensen tried out for Cap, and they offered him Hawkeye and he turned it down (there were a couple of articles on that? But screenrant seemed to be the closest to valid source when I looked it up again recently). I definitely remember reading that he was up for Clark on Smallville but considering AlMiles went to Welling three times before he accepted, it couldn't have been that close. I can see him as Hawkeye before I could see him either as Clark or Steve Rogers. The only things I've seen Jared in were pre-SPN with Gilmore Girls, and that Cheaper by the Dozen movie. I can't imagine him as Thor either.

That's fair. I am surprised that after all these years, he didn't at least try for any, especially when Tom Welling negotiated it in after a little more than just half the time on his show. But I'm not familiar with their contracts. He had the leverage since his contract was up after s8.

Oh, I think an actor having an issue with their character is fine.
That's the kind of input I'm referring to. Isn't that the problem Jensen had? That he didn't want Dean to die? As far as GoT was concerned, they started off by following the books but veered off course after they ran out. GRRM was supposed to continue the series but hasn't completed another book as far as I can tell, and the show wanted to continue so they made their own plot. Not sure how many seasons were off book.

I still don't know why they couldn't do better than to get him Brandon Routh's leftovers. They do not have the exact same body type, at least when he played Superman, though Tom Welling was on the leaner side in s10 (his weight fluctuated in the later seasons, starting in 5, and I wonder if that played a part).

[brokenhighways]

LOL, did you see the Supernatural drama that happened over the past 24 hours? I couldn't stop laughing. I don't know why Jensen had an issue with Dean dying - maybe the way he died? Dean has died at least 10 times on the show, so...I don't know.
Maybe he wasn't ready to let Dean go (again).

I always figured the SR suit was a stand-in and they were planning to make one for Welling when it came to it. I don't think they ever intended for him to wear that particular suit. It definitely would not have fit him, lol. I think they were also pushing that new style of suit as well... it seems to be the norm, now. I kind of miss the brighter colours. I feel like they're always trying to make Superman cool and edgy, but the original costumes look much better.

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I did! Definition of 'that escalated quickly'. Wow. As you can imagine, Tumblr had a great time with it, and the way some of the fans acted just really makes me double down on my original opinion of needing some distance between fans and actors. IDK if it was Dean dying because he wanted a happier ending for him or the way he died- not exactly an epic Doomsday kills Superman/going out saving the world type deal, from what I heard. And who knows? He clearly wasn't ready to let go of SPN, considering they're making a prequel that from what I can tell, the fandom does not really seem to want.

Maybe. Their budget wasn't the greatest by the end. Maybe they thought one episode wasn't worth it? I am with you on not liking the new style of suit, especially the color scheme. I prefer a more classic look but maybe not to the extend of the Reeve movies. I don't know if anyone could pull that off these days. People seemed to love the black suit and I'm just going a hard pass on that one.

[brokenhighways]

Yeah, the fans 100% (at Jared's not so subtle urging?) made that situation worse than it really needed to be. They're still going back and forth on it and debating who's right and wrong. Jensen is clearly in the wrong, but Jared's reputation means there is very little sympathy for him. All I know is that I saw Jensen for who he was a long time ago, lol. I'm not surprised at all. The spin-off idea is just... bizarre. Like they came up with the idea and just tacked on the Supernatural aspect? I don't think it will ever see the light of day.

They made a Booster Gold costume, but I imagine a Superman costume would require more work? I feel more like they knew Tom would get out of wearing it and didn't bother. I kind of like the dated Reeves costume? I feel like the costume is only 10% of who Superman is. Plus, I like the fact that it's this homemade costume his mom made (depending on the canon) and that classic (and cheesy) look is more believable in that sense. I haven't finished ZSJL yet so I haven't seen the black suit. The black costume is a special suit, isn't it? To help with his recovery after Doomsday? To me, he's not really Superman if he's not in the blue, red and yellow.

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Even after they publicly reconciled, the first tweet I saw on Jensen's reply was someone claiming how disappointed they were in him. I was making jokes to my sister about I don't know how he will be able to sleep at night now. IDK what Jensen was thinking not telling him- whether he was being petty because of their public difference in opinions on the SPN/Dean's ending, or what, but I also have zero sympathy for Jared. Grown men in their forties throwing temper tantrums on twitter (and calling some writer a "coward" too, even if he deleted it later) do not deserve sympathy. I don't know much about Jensen himself or what he's done, but I've disliked Jared since his whole "cracker is a slur" BS and how he posted that picture of an employee over a minor grievance. The fact people thought Jared's twitter account was hacked was lowkey hilarious.

As far as the spinoff goes, it is the CW so you never know. Walker got bad reviews and didn't have great ratings but it is still getting a second season.

True, they have definitely done many costumes, even though most of them were fairly simple. The Booster Gold is the only one that stands out. And that may be true. Tom probably didn't make a secret out of not wanting to wear it. The dated Reeves costume looks good in the movie- I am not sure how many actors can pull off the exact costume, especially with the difference in CGI/lighting. I haven't watched the new Superman and Lois show, but I've seen gifs where they gave him a pretty homemade looking costume, at least in the beginning. Whoops, sorry about the accidental spoiler. I don't know if they ever actually referenced it being a special suit in the movie though?

To me, he's not really Superman if he's not in the blue, red and yellow.
Yeah, it just doesn't feel right.

[brokenhighways]

I think if we forget about personal characteristics, Jensen is point blank wrong here. He's supposed to be Jared's best friend, was best man at his wedding, etc. Let alone a close co-worker of 15 years on the show he's trying to spin-off? It's pretty bad. I don't think he would hold how the show ended over Jared - he wasn't responsible for how it ended, and he's always been more diplomatic when it comes to criticising the show.

To me, it was a weird thing to do over the third or fourth attempt to get a SPN spin-off going. This one will end up in the bin like the rest of them. It backfired for Jensen massively - it was just that Jared cushioned the blow. Jensen's day will come, though, I'm sure of that.

Jared's outburst wasn't ideal, but this is probably the one instance where I see where he was coming from. He was completely blindsided. I don't think anyone can say how they'd react in the same situation. Unfortunately for him, because of all his stupid behaviour, he just made it worse for himself. Lol oh, I know all about his behaviour. I secretly moonlight as a fandom whistleblower, lol - this is how I find out when things are going down because I really don't pay attention to this stuff anymore. Yeah. I remember the Cracker incident. His behaviour in general during the Trayvon Martin trial was the beginning of the end of my padastan days. However, the Libra in me always has to see both sides of every situation. It's a curse. LOL.

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I would think he'd more mature than to hold it against him but who knows? Honestly, even if the roles were reversed, I still wouldn't have any sympathy, despite Jensen not having the public history that Jared does. If it was someone I was actually invested in or was a fan of, I think that kind of behavior would instantly put me off at least a little. It sounds cold but I truly think adults should know better than to air their grievances via twitter or any social media really. I don't care how blindsided you are. If it was my best friend, and I had their phone number, I would contact them and be like "WTF" rather than try to sic fans on them and make myself look like a victim. Unless you're a teenager, I just don't think lack of impulse control is an excuse, especially over something as minor in the grand scheme of things as a TV show.

You're right about the spinoff- it reeks of desperation to hold on to what is already dead. As far as Jensen goes, people tend to expose their true characters eventually. One slip up tends to lead to another bigger one, especially if they get away with the first one, and they will get more careless later.

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you didn't know. I was just coming from my perspective, as someone who is outside the fandom and had followed them both via social media. I see the appeal of looking at both sides, and I went to law school so there were moments where you had to, but I'm just like "both sides suck here".

[brokenhighways]

You're right, a phone call was all that was needed. From both of them. Tbh, I'm of the mind that they have a very superficial friendship anyway and they play it up for the fans. Neither of them were very good friends in this scenario.

FWIW, I genuinely don't believe Jared thought about the implications of his actions (even though his follow up tweet came off very insincere). He is very good at going after people he sees as being beneath him, but not his friends. I think it's more than just the show itself, and more about money and the overall implication. Jensen going off on his own implies he has some sort of greater claim to Supernatural than the rest of them - and he would be the only one to continue profiting if the show was successful. I don't think Sam was even mentioned in the press release. That seems deliberate and personal. That alone is enough to send someone over the edge.

Agreed, Jared should have better control of himself, but at this point, we all know he doesn't and probably never will.

Oh, I didn't take it that way at all, I was just trying to say I'm the last person who would defend Jared due to all his past behaviour. Yeah, I feel like when you don't know the full story (and we often don't and never will), it's better to have a balanced view. That and I can't stand any of them so it's very easy to be neutral (ish) in this case. :P

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Clearly they had it, unless they were forced to by their PR people, so they could've just done that from the get go. And I am not obviously in the know about the intricacies of their friendship but they seemed genuinely close for ages, at least from a distance. Since they're around the same age and were in similar situations at the beginning of the show, they might've been the closest in the first half and drifted apart, as marriage and kids came along. I wouldn't be surprised if they had to play up their friendship a little bit for the press/fans.

His follow up tweet felt insincere to me too, much like the one he used when his fans went after that employee he called out. I don't know what he was expecting though- just sympathy? Definitely wouldn't be surprised if it was the money and the thought that Jensen straight up just didn't want to work with him. It is funny how we were just saying that he never took the reigns to becoming a producer on the show or get some sort of credit and it turns out he just went all in after, and got the rights, or at least part of them. Even if hadn't done it yet or perhaps was just saying so to bait the fans, Jared did seem at least mildly interested in having Jensen come on Walker. I do wonder if Jensen didn't know a way to tell Jared about it without making it clear that he didn't want him involved, which is kind of sad if you can't have these upfront conversations with someone you call "family".

As long as he has fans to support him, he probably won't. There's no need.

Okay, good, I was just checking. It's definitely easier when you're not emotionally involved.

After all this, it is kind of funny to compare how Rosenbaum and Welling are working together for that Smallville animated show.

[brokenhighways]

I love Tom and Mike, but a funny comment I saw kind of summed it up - "Cameo is where you pay actors to say what you want". I still see it as more of a 'we are available for work, and we're aware Smallville fans are the most invested in getting us jobs' kind of thing. :P DC literally have a new animated series coming up... plus, has Tom forgotten he literally gave us a shiny new ending for Smallville? *grumble*

He started his production company before Supernatural ended iirc, so I guess he was ready to make that move. I can't understand why he would even want to produce a Supernatural spin-off anyway... Surely the well has run dry?! I saw a comment that said Jensen was obviously having a hard time letting go of the show and I agree. I can't imagine causing all this ruckus over a teen drama that nobody is interested in.

I think the reconciliation was pure PR, tbh. Once the major news outlets picked it up, they had to do damage control. Plus, they're both working under the same production company (WB), so I wonder if they got a nudge from above.

IMO, Jensen knew exactly what was he was doing. If he was going on trips with Jared and couldn't find five minutes to say, 'Hey so, we're going ahead with that Supernatural spin-off', it was because he didn't want him involved. It does seem like we're missing a piece of the puzzle here. I'm not sure I fully buy Jared's claim he had no idea AT ALL. I just think he had no idea he wouldn't be involved and that things had progressed to that level.

For whatever reason Jensen just doesn't want to work with Jared. They own a beer company together, I think, so it's not even like they haven't done business together. I think the obvious answer is often the right one, and I can see why the fans don't want to accept it, but IMO, the friendship is not as airtight as people thought it was, and with the show being over, the lockdown, quarantining, and Jensen moving away from Austin and not seeing each other every other weekend at cons, things are just different. It happens.

Still, I think Jared got a very ruuuuude awakening, lol. I can't say it wasn't well deserved either. He's a walking nightmare. Yes about his tweet, btw. He likes to do that whole passive aggressive PLEASE DON'T SEND THREATS five hours after his fans have already sent threats. He replied to someone on Facebook once, after he doxxed someone, and his fans went after them. She [the poster] said she had thousands of angry replies to her (reasonable) comment before she deleted it. I think the next day, he finally told his brain dead fans to stop (like he hadn't sicced them on two unsuspecting people at that point?) I emailed with her briefly and luckily, she seemed like she was fine. Still, with all the 'charity' work he's done and the anti-bullying campaigns, it's shocking he hasn't been cancelled yet. He's just disgusting, honestly. And the people who defend him are gross too.

I can't say I'm emotionally invested, but when it comes to Jared, I'll be the first one to passionately chime in and agree that he sucks. For a while, I was the only one, so if I seem a little OTT, it's because he's been doing this stuff for years and people always enable him.

My teenage self is still very disappointed that he turned out to be such a douche, lol.

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Oh, for sure, they're smart enough to team up and realize what the fans want. I am surprised Michael Rosenbaum wasn't in more things. Maybe because he leaned toward comedy rather than other genres, because he really was one of the most talented cast members. There hasn't been a Lex that compares for me. And it's true as far as the other animated series, which has already been picked up for two seasons by Cartoon Network. Odd lane to go into. The other one looks cute too! As far as the ending goes, they do have that seven year gap to fill so they can always go that route.

Jensen is definitely have difficulty letting go. Apparently, the name of his company was even Free Will Entertainment before it got changed to Chaos Entertainment, and there are allegedly five SPN related shows being produced? This prequel is just #1, but don't quote me on that one. I only read it somewhere today. That seems like 5 more than anyone has asked for. Some fans will watch it. The question is for how many and for how long.

Agreed. Them being under the same production company definitely had to have something to do with it.

Yeah, this was in the plans long enough for him to have informed Jared had he wanted to, and we are definitely missing more than a few pieces, details we'll probably never get. There was some video circulating that claimed Jared knew because of some interview or panel where they talk or hint at it, but I have to admit that I wasn't invested enough to watch it so I can't validate those claims. You're probably right in terms of he knew something but hadn't realized how far it would go or that Jensen would deliberately leave him out.

For sure. People just sometimes grow apart, and it is hard for fans to accept but it does happen. They have their own separate lives and they can't keep in touch as often.

Yikes about that fan. It was nice of you to email her and I'm glad that she was okay. And I think he's not a A lister so it's easier for him to avoid being cancelled. Plus if Melania Trump promoted anti bullying, at this point, I'm not surprised who else does and their actions outside the campaign. Speaking of which, Trump's former legal advisor coming to defend Jared adds a whole new level of hilarity to this whole thing.

It is smart to create some distance, and it is tough when you're in a big fandom to take a stand and go against the grain. And people do not care when it's their faves. It's amazing how much fans will excuse. After Allison Mack got a pitiful 3 year sentence yesterday, someone had the nerve to write some article about "what happens when your heroes fall" regarding Chloe and I'm like "where are your priorities?" Of course it gets worse when you get into other forms of entertainment.

Understandable. It's hard when someone you admired/was a fan of turns out to be a jerk. It's definitely happened to me too, and Jared's heel turn was a surprise. I didn't like his character on Gilmore Girls but in real life, he always seemed okay.

[brokenhighways]

I saw a comment on Reddit about Michael Rosenbaum getting so fed up of Smallville, he'd tell 'F*** you' at the camera between takes. Grain of salt, etc, but I can picture him doing that, lol. I think some actors just have that one role that defines them and Lex Luthor was it for him. I can't even imagine him in anything else. I'm betting he got offers for serious roles but went down the comedy route and it just petered out once the novelty of him being LL wore off. I think Tom Welling has the same issue. It's hard to picture him as someone else.

I guess they could cover the missing years, but I feel like Crisis has ruined the chances a little. Personally, I don't consider it to be canon, but a lot of people do. WB is going through a merger as well now, and apparently they're looking to dump DC. So...I don't know where Smallville even fits in with that.

Five SPN spin-offs? LOL. Oh dear. Well, he'll be in for a rude awakening once the money dries up and his production company is 0 for 5. Lol a Trump adviser was involved? I checked out after that first week and didn't keep up. Last I heard, the Jensen fans are still working triple time to defend him.

It is tough, but I feel like these big fandoms are almost a giant gaslighting experience. Behaviour that is not normal is glamourised and then you're bthe bad guys for calling it out. That used to annoy me and I was constantly getting into arguments, lol. I'm much calmer these days, but I was always pretty opinionated and good at calling stuff out. Unfortunately, in a fandom like that you need to have tough skin. After a while I had to take a step back for the sake of my sanity and I created the blog to vent, and eventually for like minded people to come and hang. I've had people say it helped them out when it comes to seeing what's going on and detaching themselves which is always cool.

I remember getting a vibe from Jared in the height of my obsession with him. Not a bad vibe, but rather that he wasn't very genuine and had a tendency to just say the same things that lacked substance (always a red flag). Turns out he's probably been an asshole the entire time, lol. I was disappointed but not surprised. I mostly liked him for his hair anyway. :D What did it for me was his charity work that came right after he called Philip Seymour-Hoffman's death stupid and senseless. How people didn't see through that will always be a mystery to me. To me he made a mockery of mental health and depression and lined his pockets in the process.

Ugh. Some of these Allison Mack supporters are very weird and... disturbed. In what way is she a fallen hero? Yikes. She is not Chloe Sullivan, and like it or not she did horrible things. All of the stuff like that article and people bending over backwards to call her a victim (while ignoring that she was also a perpetrator) are just deluding themselves. I get it, sometimes it's distressing when your faves end up in trouble, but tact is always key.

That three year sentence was not surprising but way too low, IMO. Did you read her apology? I wasn't convinced, but hopefully she has seen the light. I still wonder about how involved KK was. Even though she wasn't a DOS member, some of the stuff she did seems questionable...

Life would be easier if we got rid of celebrity culture altogether!

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Oh, wow, yeah, he definitely seems like the type. And true! I can see him being typecast. I do think he prefers comedy, considering his choices pre SV and he did try something that didn't take off, but like you said, it wore off soon. I can't imagine him as anything but Lex either. Justin Hartley just struck gold with This Is Us because he wasn't haven't long term success either until that one. Not that he isn't talented- he is good at playing characters I want to immediately send to therapy lol

I think people who loved Smallville would easily forego the Crisis scene for nostalgia sake- I can't really imagine it being a dealbreaker. Give it enough time and people might not even remember it happened. Did not know that about WB and DC. I too wonder how it will play out.

Yeah, I can't imagine there being enough of a fanbase for 5 shows. And yeah, I saw it because the memes are easier to follow on Tumblr. I am not surprised they're still defending him- fans are dedicated, and I don't mean that in a complimentary way. And I guess we will see how being on The Boys helps or affects his career.

Oh they can definitely be toxic, especially when some fandom theories become so popular that it is considered "canon" and people are vilified for not falling in line. And I get what you mean by how draining it can be to constantly fight. It is healthier in the long term to find your own place and attract like minded people, because you are rarely alone in your opinions. There are always people, especially in a big fandom, who feel marginalized and shut out for many reasons.

Sometimes you do pick a vibe. Oh well, maybe that makes it slightly easier to detach? There are people who worship everything about these stars and that is tougher. When you are blinded by that kind of devotion, it really can make it hard to see through the real personality or justify their actions. Look at Trump! Jared is a whole different matter, but if that man can still have people devoted to him, anyone can.

There was definitely a lack of distinction between Chloe Sullivan and Allison Mack, at least by the more hardcore fans. I remember when they had some sort of "feminism/pro women" site/comm back in the day and they propped up AM. I think AM had some blog where it seemed like she used to practically think of herself as Chloe. It's just a mess. IDK how people can think she is a victim when it was her initials that was part of the brand they were putting on these poor women.

I didn't read it. I read statements she has made in the past and I just don't buy it. How they let her take classes while she was under house arrest is unbelievable. I know KK was involved early but she seemed to have left before all this went down but not sure how much she knew. Guess we never will unless she comes clean.

Oh, agreed. As long as it is financially beneficial for those involved (sports/music/other entertainment), it will be encouraged on some level.